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Almost a game winner.
Final Box Score | GameThread (830+ comments) | Links
Everything about this game was almost, but not quite. Coming off a four game slide, and looking ahead to home games against the Heat and Magic before playing four road games in five nights, this was as close to a must win as it gets this early in the season. Unfortunately, in tonight's game for every critical defensive stop there was a blown layup, and for every clutch three there was a turnover. When it was all said and done the lack of execution left the Warriors one point shy of the win. Hit the jump to take a closer look.
You could see from the start of the game that nothing was going to come easy for Monta. The Jazz were playing him very aggressively, forcing him baseline and trapping on the pick and roll, and collapsing hard on his drives. Raja Bell was playing him very physically, and things got chippy between the two by the second quarter. This made for a long night for Monta. He ended up shooting 8 of 22, and turning the ball over six times. But Monta stayed aggressive in his own right, and was able to find his way to the free throw line 17 times.
I can understand the pressure Monta is under offensively with Curry being out, but he took the ball into trouble and left his feet without a plan far too many times for my taste. His 32 points and 6 assists were fools gold. The Warriors need to find a way to keep the ball moving and get everyone involved when Monta is in there. Sometimes the line between being persistent/aggressive, and being stubborn/hardheaded is a fine one. Tonight that line just might have been one bucket, because if the Warriors win this game I might have a different outlook on Monta's performance.
I'm not going to argue that Nate Robinson is a great, or even a good player, but with Curry out he is welcome sight on this roster. This team was in desperate need of another willing and capable scorer in the backcourt, and he has answered the call in that department. You know you're going to get double digit scoring off the bench from him, but tonight he did well to create for others with five assists, and he also made an impact with two key offensive rebounds. It's going to be a very long season if we have to consistently rely on Nate, but for the time being his energy and attitude have had a positive effect.
On the other end of the spectrum you have Charles Jenkins. He did nothing to impress me tonight. He was entirely passive from the PG position and spent all his minutes completely deferring to Monta. He just doesn't run the show when he's on the floor, and he doesn't find other ways to contribute. He basically disappeared on the court for his stretches in the 1st and 3rd. I may be wrong, but I think he has more talent than he's shown us so far. Having said that, if he doesn't show signs of life soon he needs to be planted firmly on the bench next to Ish Smith while Riley goes PG shopping.
The Jazz were doing a pretty good job getting the ball inside to Jefferson and Millsap early on, but in the second quarter the Warriors made a move on defense that completely changed the tone of the game. They went into a 2-3 zone, and they did a great job of overloading the strong side to deny any post entry passes or penetration. The two high guards would split the duty of guarding the ball at the top, but as soon as the ball would swing to one side of the floor the whole zone would shift hard, bringing at least three defenders (the guard on that side at the elbow extended, the forward on that side from the baseline, and the center from in the paint) into play on any attempt at getting the ball inside.
The 2-3 is typically a good tool for shutting down an inside game, but can leave you exposed on the perimeter, especially if you can get the ball from side to side with a drive and kick (from one wing penetrating to the FT line and kicking out to the other wing for instance) or quick, crisp ball rotation. Tonight, however, the Jazz weren't able to make the Warriors pay from outside, shooting only 25% on their 16 3pt attempts. It was the right tool to use at the right time. It was a shame to see them go away from it in the third for so long, but it seems to be conventional wisdom in the NBA that zones are for use in end of half, or end of quarter situations. The defense was still strong in the third, so I shouldn't complain too much, but I'd like to make them come up with a solution before abandoning something that was working so effectively. The important part is that they went back to it multiple times, and it got the job done.
All in all, it was another good defensive effort, as they held the Jazz to 39.5% shooting on the night. It would have been nice to see them create a few more turnovers, but the Jazz stayed true to form as they took very good care of the ball tonight.
It's far too easy after a game like this one to focus entirely on the last possession. I've had to fight the impulse to bring it up until now. Everyone who reads my recaps regularly knows how I feel about how every team in the NBA seems to think that isolation is the only play in the playbook when there is less than 24 seconds on the game clock. So, to avoid any possible eye rolling or claims of dead horse abuse, I'll limit my critique to the simple fact that if Monta is going to "do Monta" on that play, he has to go two or three seconds earlier, that way David Lee's game winning tip-in would have actually won the game.
Now that we have that out of the way, I can't believe how many easy plays the Dubs blew tonight. There were more flubbed fast breaks, and point blank misses than I care to detail, but any one of those many missed opportunities could have changed the outcome of this game. The defense gave this team every chance to win tonight, and they literally let it slip through their hands, again and again.
There has been a lot of talk about how much effect Lee's rebounding has on the success of the team. He's been called and empty rebounder, and some have gone so far as to say that he only grabs the easy ones and none of the hard ones (I'm looking at you Gov). I'm not going to make a grand judgment on Lee and his rebounding, but I'll say that tonight he fought hard on the defensive glass, and he wrestled 15 boards away from the likes of Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, and Kanter. If those aren't hard rebounds, then I don't know what are, and tonight they definitely made an impact. So for putting the done stamp on 14 effective defensive possessions, and chipping in 13 points on 50% shooting Lee gets to take home this prestigious award. I'm sure he can sleep well knowing that he's tonight's Warriors Wonder.
0 recs | 184 comments
Nice recap.
I didn’t know I said he only gets easy ones and no hard ones but most of the time that’s how it seems. I’ve started to see evaluate him on how many non-free throw miss rebounds + non-uncontested rebounds and it’s kinda startling. Someone like Biedrins is banging down low getting really tough rebounds but Lee is just there passively. Lee’s play annoys me more day after day.
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
I come somewhere down between the two of you on Lee's rebounding.
I don’t think tonight’s effort was Murphy-esque, but I worry that he has that tendency, at least sometimes.
But I just can’t for the life of me understanding bringing in a free agent for that much money and then not making playing to his strengths a priority. I’m not saying he’s worth the contract anyway, but when he’s not being used the way he should be he’s not worth half of it.
Ronaldinho - January 8, 2012
True.
I really don’t understand this team at all. We’ve been letting Monta do Monta for 3 years now, and there’s almost no urgency to change it. The most enjoyable basketball I’ve seen from this team in the past 3 years was when Monta was out at the end of 2010 and Curry and our players all shared the ball and played to their strengths. Not sure why we couldn’t have played a similar style with much better players considering our injury issues.
Is anyone else starting to get down on Joe Lacob? I think he’s done a good job with the business aspect of the organization but I haven’t particularly liked any personel moves since he has taken over. He seems to think he knows a ton about basketball when he should just hire some accomplished basketball minds (not Larry Riley, Bob Myers, and Travis Schlenk) who know what they’re doing. Now we’ve wasted the amnesty (a huge gift) when it could have really helped us start this rebuilding process faster. Now we’re not going to get our pick most likely and probably won’t make the playoffs…what is the point?
And isn’t it time to let Monta go to a team where he knows he isn’t top dog and has a chance to actually compete. I feel like we’re wasting both of the organization and his time by playing him 40+ minutes and not go anywhere.
Rant over.
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
+1
This offense is so unbelievably boring. I can’t even get excited when Monta plays well anymore because that just guarantees “Monta iso post-ups” for the next twenty possessions. I realize that Monta is a truly gifted scorer, but how often does that approach work out?
randolphforpresident - January 8, 2012
I'm one of those guys who doesn't like to see one player dominate the ball.
Unless they’re one of those natural miracles like Nash or CP3 who just play beautiful basketball and make the game so easy for everyone.
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
I don't think anyone LIKES to see 1 player dominate the ball...
I’d hope not at least.
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
You’ll be surprised. Fans of individual players (as opposed to teams) squeal in delight whenever their favorites hold the ball for 23 seconds to chuck contested 30-foot fadeaway jumpers.
WYK - January 8, 2012
fantasy basketball players also regularly like to see their players dominate the ball
bigkino217 - January 8, 2012
I wouldn't call that a basketball fan then
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
Most NBA “fans” aren’t.
WYK - January 8, 2012
Carmelo has fans
lincypoo i wuv u - January 8, 2012
No argument there.
Only In Fairfax - January 8, 2012
And isn’t it time to let Monta go to a team where he knows he isn’t top dog and has a chance to actually compete
he’d be great on a team like the spurs or boston where he could just do what he does best and not have to be the focus of the offense.
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
Not really.His contract isn’t absurd. Obviously you’re open to idea of moving him but you need to get back value. Value being key word. I’d take a pick of a good young player, or if we could use him in context of what we actually need, a legitimate star, you do it without thinking twice.
However if you’re looking to ‘dump’. Andris is #2, DLee is #1. His contract is legitimately crippling, and not a very good player. Or in my opinion, a gimmick player who only produces in a gimmick system.
Monta, atleast he was showing early season, he will defer to Steph and the two are capable of playing efficiently together. And if we did get a legitimate #1 player, I have no doubts Monta would play more controlled and much more efficient in a #2 role.
My obvious preference would be to trade Monta and use Curry in that way, however I could totally live with the reference being as Curry likely has a bit more value.
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I just think, moving Monta needs to be the right situation. Either youth/picks (taking us one direction) or in context of a real star. A side move for Iggy or Gay, not so much. It doesn’t do enough for us to warrant it over the two options I presented.
Dlee needs to be moved first.
tafkasam - January 8, 2012
ya, i was soooooo hoping for an amnesty of Lee.
We could have so much flexibility and options going forward.
Monta for a 2012 first rounder sounds good.
PIRATEWARRIOR - January 8, 2012
The crazy thing about Monta.
Is that he has shown that he could really be an effective point guard when he wants then he suddenly goes to “bad Monta” mode and tries to take over….last night he chucked up a missed 3 or so but was in “good Monta” assist mode then decided that he needed to take over and kept driving into the teeth of an effective defense with turnovers and bad Monta one man results over and over. Another display of one man showmanship.
When we see those segments of Good Monta at point I can almost visualize Curry a shootin 2…Curry hasnt actually been as good of distributer this season as we have seen in the past as well?
Only In Fairfax - January 8, 2012
I'm less sold that "good Monta" works as a point guard.
I really do feel that while “good Monta” tends to make better decisions, the team offense still doesn’t flow in the same way. I think even good Monta has a deleterious effect on the team offense when he dominates the ball. The difference is that good Monta takes higher percentage shots and does a better shot dishing, the offense is still one-dimensional.
Ronaldinho - January 8, 2012
He still needs a big PG to play with, in other words, so he can play SG.
Naticus - January 8, 2012
Yes and no
I don’t believe in this concept of ‘good monta’ and ‘bad monta’ to a degree. To me it implies, he just gets selfish taking from better options, something I think he’s rarely done in last 1.5 years. I think the issue is more, we’ve NEVER had a #1 type option, closest we’ve had is steph, who is willing to defer to, and who’s chemistry he improves with daily. However Steph’s not perfect either. We see foul trouble keeping him off the floor regularly. Passive play at times, and of course injuries whether it’s sitting or just playing injured, which the team will know and naturally try to ‘do more’ to compensate.
I think the issue with Monta he, he has limited vision. A lot of it stems from ball ballhandling. A lot of it has to do with aggressiveness he plays with, something which defines his game and you can’t expect him to ‘stop’.
I think Monta’s a willing passer, but reality is, I want a PG who can change tempos and get everyone involved. I mean really, Monta’s the definition of a combo guard.
So yes, to make an effective team, he needs to be next to someone MORE patient, who can spread the ball. Essentially dual PG duties if you will. Monta attacks more, that guy stays on top of key. Like Terry/Barea and Kidd last year.
—
Does that mean we should build around Monta? No.
Does that mean we should DUMP him? No
We should just be aware of who he is, and how it’s unlikely to change, except for becoming a bit more refined at what he does and hopefully continued improved decision making.
I think in the event we could move Steph for Howard, our first move next offseason would be for Chauncey Billups or maybe Andre Miller. The archetype player to compliment Monta.
I think if we move Monta for Dwight or someone else, we probably need to pursue a legitimate slasher to keep this team from resembling my middle school bball team with a pass and screen away type offense.
tafkasam - January 9, 2012
You see, this is just a mind-boggling statement to me. Every time Monta takes an early-shot-clock long jumper, and every time he dribbles at the top of the key, let’s the entire defense focus on him, then drives …
he’s taking a shot from a better option.
Now sometimes that better option is him. If he passed the ball and moved, sometimes it’d come back to him and he’d have a chance to drive into a less-set defense. He might get the ball back when he’s got a slight edge on his man, giving him much greater success of his drives. He might get the ball back when the help was distracted, making it harder for them to double him.
To say that you don’t think he’s done that too much over the last 1.5 years, well, I don’t know what to say to that. He does it a ton. I’d wager that last year he did it at least 5-6 times a game, if not more, not including end-of-game scenarios.
Ronaldinho - January 9, 2012
Ellis' fans seem to grant him a special category of 'effective point guard'
there’s no ‘crazy thing about’ it. Considering all the fast breaks they ran w. Nelson in practices and games, if Ellis is the ball handler and it isn’t a one-man break where he obviously excels, conversion lacks consistency (he did hook up with the wide open Robinson who could even be better suited to the open court game). We well know his fondness for forcing passes after he’s up in the air, whether or not there’s a passing lane. Since he’s made some spectacular plays taking the ball right at the strength of the d, the failures that frequently get converted into opposition scores are an accepted cost.
Short of preparation time, the coaches appear to be making up the offense as they go, and Jackson has started to use Ellis like he often played himself, in the post. The better defenses won’t have much trouble anticipating his options and passing lanes, but intermittent success with it will probably gain praise ‘cause he’s the main man on offense and rising to the challenge.
the.monk - January 8, 2012
Since he’s made some spectacular plays taking the ball right at the strength of the d, the failures that frequently get converted into opposition scores are an accepted cost.
only if you overlook that there are better alternatives to the whole process?
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
same as it ever was
The most depressing sight of all was with ten on the game clock, or whatever it was, watching everyone clear the floor and stand around while everyone waited for the shot from Monta. They had Bell on him, their best defender and guess what, he missed. I would have still hated it if it went in, since as the Guv points out, this is the same boring crap we have been watch for two decades (small window of light for “we believe”). The best players on the team are undersized and injury-prone. I am so sick of the second and third best players being the guy who just showed up (Nate R, B Rush).
Lacob should blow this up to go for Howard, if he can. I cant believe I’m saying this, but this season is already over. They will 2 and 8 after getting housed by Miami and Orlando, meaning they’d have to go at least 33-23 just to make a 35-31 season. It will take a record like that to make the playoffs. Anybody think they can go 33-23 ?
This is a sad, boring team that scares no one. We may as well start Klay at 2 and play him30 mintues/ night and have Monta play out the string at point. Hundred bux says Curry does not get better this year, they ought to shut him down and pray that the Utah pick comes back, this is a good draft and we might get something.
felix botticelli - January 8, 2012
They will 2 and 8 after getting housed by Miami and Orlando,
but that would be good for our draft pick.
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
That's cause Lee was supposed to be a Nellie Ball
Center. He would’ve played 5 in our small ball lineup. Lee in a traditional system with hardly any plays to get him easy buckets is the waste of a player we have now.
His defense on Milsap in the block to end the game was bad. He got backed down to like 2 feet from the basket, Milsap turns left shoulder for a layup. Also not to mention he got his own rebound while Lee was ball watching.
Lee gets the WW cause of his box score looking nice and the sour taste from Monta’s turnovers. But no Warrior deserved any kind of accolade for last nights performance.
kenntoe - January 8, 2012 via mobile
But no Warrior deserved any kind of accolade for last nights performance.
I vote for big Splash makin his freethrows with a tweaked pinky.He’s almost consistently playin better than I expected he’d play so I’m happy for him.
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
granted. I just can't give Lee credit for good offense, with equally bad if not worse defense.
kenntoe - January 8, 2012
I believe it was a post game frustration post...
and I want to be clear, I don’t think Lee is a monster rebounder that makes a huge impact on most nights. I was impressed with his effort on the boards tonight, and I wanted to highlight it. He grabbed more than a couple tough contested rebounds tonight. I didn’t mention it in my recap, but I also agree with Ronaldinho that they should have gone to Lee more on offense. It seems like Lee is most effective when the ball is hopping around and he’s cutting to the basket, but that just doesn’t happen as much when Monta is dominating the ball.
olympicmike - January 8, 2012
Lee is PF. C needs to rebounds more
Center has better chance to get more rebounds than PF. For a PF, Lee has done a great job. Too bad Beans didn’t play else it will be a easy win. Brown’s rebounding and defense is not as good as Beans.
ILoveWarriorsGirls - January 8, 2012
I do not understand why D Wright was not given more minutes.
He made a 3 and looked like he was ready to get his game back.
Only In Fairfax - January 8, 2012
Also does anyone here know the reason Ish Smith is totally out of the rotation.
I dont get it…I did not see bad play from him before the dog house treatment. Was it his his defense? Help….
Only In Fairfax - January 8, 2012
definitely wasnt his defense
bigkino217 - January 8, 2012
Rush played a lot better.
Naticus - January 8, 2012
Rush played a lot better.
there’d be plenty of minutes for rush and splish if they cut down on clay’s minutes?
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
True. Klay didn’t have a great night and isn’t a proven NBA player.
Naticus - January 8, 2012
I think the PF/C distinction you’re making is kinda silly. Of the best 10 rebounders in total rebounds/40, 6 of them were power forwards and 4 of them were centers. The best 3 rebounders are listed at power forward.
There isn’t as meaningful a difference in rebounding between those positions are you make it sound. I think the bigger thing is being the primary or only rebounding option on your team. David Lee put up his good rebounding year in New York playing alongside power forwards like Al Harrington, Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler who are all more like small forwards. It wasn’t that he was playing center, but that he wasn’t playing alongside any good power forward rebounders.
Reverend_Randy - January 8, 2012
David Lee’s positional problem is that he has trouble scoring when he’s playing alongside an actual center. He does need to be the center. Unfortunately, he can’t play anything resembling center defense.
Reverend_Randy - January 8, 2012
David Lee as Warrior Wonder?
Guess I was watching some other game.
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
david lee was getting boarded over all night! His points were off of easy dimes from Monta and others and his rebounds to my eye again were empty. If he can’t make the 15ft pick and pop jumper than he basically has no game. Also felt like we got pretty hosed by the refs towards the end of the game, which is nothing new.
EgonBrainparts - January 8, 2012
Mr. Lee Less
I can see him being aggressive on the offensive end but defensively….not so much. He doesn’t close on shooter or the person his guarding. Did anyone watch the Lakers game, youll see Gasol shooting those open shots and thats because Lee was nowhere to be found. David Lee should not post against bigger and stronger players than him cuz the result…Mr. Lee Less
stepN30 - January 8, 2012
Lee has been bad on defense, I saw some blatantly blown plays against Gasol.
I see a lot of PFs get by him off the ball. Lee needs an excellent help defender to play with him. Brown hasn’t been bad but it seems Lee needs an elite defending big to play along side him.
brutusbrutus - January 8, 2012
Nate was wonderful
He played couple of games with the warriors and seems to be fitting in nicely. All that hustle play what make this team win but unfornunately some didnt.
stepN30 - January 8, 2012
Nate,Kwame and Rush have been great additions.
Ish and Maquire have helped as well.
Only In Fairfax - January 8, 2012
respect montas game..
its really changing before us…he looks different from last year, he is gettin ppl more involved and shots just aren’t dropping for him this early on in the season, hes able to creat for himself and his teammates…kwame just can’t catch and where is dorrell?
STEPHnELLIS - January 8, 2012
Kwame has beed catching ...much better than his rep.
But like most guys his size you dont fire quick zip/bounce passes at him especially at a low level.
Only In Fairfax - January 8, 2012
been
Only In Fairfax - January 8, 2012
His size and strength rock. Nice to have.
Naticus - January 8, 2012
BurgerKing hands
KB’s hands are small. Warriors are fortunate to have him on defense; if only he could get a clean handle and finish at the rim.
TrueGSfan - January 9, 2012
re: if only he could get a clean handle and finish at the rim.
dude, he’s 7 feet tall and almost 300 pounds, cut the man-giant a break
you never saw Andre the Giant doing any flips off the corner buckle…these guys gotta play their games
Duby Dub Dubs - January 9, 2012
I must say, I enjoyed that comment.
olympicmike - January 9, 2012
haha, awesome, thanks!
Duby Dub Dubs - January 9, 2012
I am very worried about the Warriors
in the past few seasons they have lost, however I had a great time watching to Warriors lose because they played entertaining basketball. Now the Warriors have slowed down the offense, they are just as bad or worse and they are less entertaining.
Of course the most entertaining would be consistent winning. I just simply can’t stand non-entertaining losing.
brutusbrutus - January 8, 2012
I'm in this boat
We literally refuse to fast-break these days. What is so odd too is that Monta, the guy who would seemingly benefit from getting some easy buckets in transition, always seems to want to slow things down and get into the half-court offense.
randolphforpresident - January 8, 2012
What is so odd too is that Monta, the guy who would seemingly benefit from getting some easy buckets in transition, always seems to want to slow things down
haha, maybe he has an assist incentive clause in his contract? and hasta wait for assistees??
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
This is basically our best “copy/paste” for years…..perhaps the new sign board slogan for the team at the games to replace the “we believe” signs ….;-0
Only In Fairfax - January 10, 2012
done
Duby Dub Dubs - January 10, 2012
Must have watched a different game than me...
Lee’s defense is just terriable and it’s hard to watch. David Lee’s ‘defense’ was getting us killed out there.
warriorsscore110 - January 8, 2012
D-Leegue played bad defense last night
He hasn’t played good defense after the first few games, when he was aggressive on the pick and roll. I’d give it to Monta for carrying the offense.
doubleteapot - January 8, 2012
I'm not sure we CAN run plays for David Lee
I don’t think he’s good enough on offense.
He’s ONLY thrives as a mismatch 5, with a stretch 4.
I think people on GSoM thought I was trolling when I said play Vlad over Biedrins or trade Biedrins straight up for Frye, and their certainly was a bit of humor mixed in, but I honestly think it’s the only way David Lee will be worth anything offensively.
A big reason he’s not worth more than half his contract.
tafkasam - January 8, 2012
I'm just saying
The only play he’s thrives on is the pick and roll.
I’m not certain Curry or Monta can run it well for one. Both should be able to with a bit more practice, but neither show real consistency.
Secondly, and more importantly. LEe can’t finish consistently unless the lanes clear, which happens two main ways, uptempo/early in clock before defense is set or in a smaller/spread lineup meaning no other bigs.
tafkasam - January 8, 2012
Lee setting screens
Seems to Memphis he is a little over eager to slip (instead of set) those screens. There were a few plays last nigh where he tried to set a screen for Monta but was either not close enough, or would set at the wrong angle.
Glad he got WW, the guy has had some reall tough match ups lately, must be nice for him to win such a prestigious award.
But yeah, this brand of Dubs ball is not nearly as fun to watch as our old lovable losers. It’s only gonna get worse next week, but we are still the Dubs, so I’m hoping for a surprise win or two…
And Monta, love him, love his game, but hat his decision making. Watching the end of the game last night with mrs Duby and she was wondering why I wasn’t all crazy for MontA. Then I called it on two consecutive possessions: monta shoots this without a single pass, and misses…sho nuff, I was right both times. I think he has all the skills, but without a more well balanced offensive approach, we are doomed to watch monta “do you” …he is our tank commander, even if folks are missing, we still NEED to play as a team, instead of Monta vs the world
Duby Dub Dubs - January 8, 2012 via mobile
I don’t mind the style of play. I just think our roster is unsuited for it and Lee is a gimmick player. Said it from the beginning.
He plays an inefficient game (mid-range J’s) and can only get to rim consistently, when floors spread or lanes wide open. He won’t finish in traffic or over people.
Now to fantasy land, Dwight Howard + Monta’s drive and dish passing or Curry’s playmaking. Mmmmmmmmmm
tafkasam - January 8, 2012
I did miss majority of first half
So, I do have a question-
How did Monta get so many free throws? Friendly ref? or did he adjust his game a bit?
He’s CLEARLY overshooting, and I don’t blame him per-say. But when Steph comes back, handles more, sets the team up more, his attempts should go down, and more importantly, if he’s doing something different and getting to line more, his efficiency should rise.
tafkasam - January 8, 2012
He was aggressive getting to the rim and got the calls
I think he also shot a technical free throw and the Jazz might have committed a loose ball foul or two when they were over the limit.
doubleteapot - January 8, 2012
What I thought/saw in second half
The biggest difference in way Monta doesn’t get to line and Rose/Westbrook do (just using players comparable size) is strength. Both are strong enough to put their bodies into someone and not bounce off.
Monta claimed he was going to gain 15 lbs. He might have gained some in legs which is certainly beneficial. BUT he does need to address fact his upper body resembles a teen. A little more strength, I think he could put his body more into people and draw the contact AND finish.
tafkasam - January 8, 2012
Yes!!
Monta does look like he is working at getting to the line more…I still say he takes more uncalled abuse than any other NBA player! He gets bumped on almost every shot, but almost never gets the whistle
Duby Dub Dubs - January 8, 2012 via mobile
Amen, Duby. Every word rings true!
dinohealth - January 8, 2012
Part of it is his post ups. I was hoping that would pay off. Good idea on M.Jackson’s part.
Naticus - January 8, 2012
Very true!
Monta is recognizing when he has a matchup he can post up, and taking advantage of it.
Ronaldinho - January 8, 2012
He went to the rim hard
and more importantly, its the Jazz. That’s how they play defense lol
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
How they play D or the respect they get?
I hate blaming refs, but Gasol got away with some murder v. us.
tafkasam - January 9, 2012
Gasol does not and never will foul the way that Jazz big men seem to always foul lol
and it has nothing to do with refs for them. Been that way for 2 decades under Sloan.
Brownie13 - January 10, 2012
Not too much positive to take from that game...
… at least in the Laker loss Klay knocked down some shots and gave us some hope.
That last play. Ugh. If we’re going to continue to do this play every time, someone needs to at least inform Monta that there is not real advantage to waiting for the buzzer. At least give your guys a chance at a tip or put back.
DLee played pretty well overall, with the exception of bouts of defensive laziness. I want someone to make Lee watch that crucial Milsap sefl-rebound and putback while Lee just stood there …..over and over and over Clockwork Orange style
I’m still holding out the hope that this team (with Curry) can resemble the Chicago game more nights than not. We haven’t had all three of our guys since then and it’s definitely a tough adjustment. We can call ourselves a no excuse team all we want, but in reality when you are missing one of your top players, your team will be worse. Period.
warriorsablaze - January 8, 2012
Yeah, Klay
Was back to his old ways last night.
I’ve temporarily retired his nickname, but he still does not impress me at all…I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt for now, but it’s a real effort for me at this point
Duby Dub Dubs - January 8, 2012 via mobile
W's draft.....Udoh instead of Monroe/George/Davis......Klay instead of Markieff/Burks.
Klay , please turn into Reggie Miller and prove me wrong!
Only In Fairfax - January 10, 2012
Basically...
Either Monta’s missed dunk and/or Klay Thompson botched fast break pass to Monta lost this game in my eyes….awwww well !!! and lastly… is it in the universal Warriors handbook that when we have less than 10 secs in any quarter just give it to Monta for the final shot instead of running an actual play that MIGHT work???… that frustrates me the most about our team… there’s no 2nd option and teams know that
Five Eighty - January 8, 2012
We actually have a few options..
….It’s Monta who doesn’t seem to know that.
warriorsablaze - January 8, 2012
Either Monta’s missed dunk and/or Klay Thompson botched fast break pass to Monta lost this game in my eyes….
haha, it wasn’t 2 to 4. Every possession and play through out the whole game has the same effect as any other one.Those mistakes were just more visible but not more important in the final score.
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
This!
There were a ton of stupid TOs, from Udoh traveling to Klay passing to some phantom cutter…not fair to point to the las few minutes alone
Duby Dub Dubs - January 8, 2012 via mobile
…not fair to point to the las few minutes alone
for sure one has to value possessions from the first tip off cause any one could be the game
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
hey Mike, the boxscore you posted is for the warriors LAKERS game... ( ;
or do you not want me to see how bad we did?
PIRATEWARRIOR - January 8, 2012
Haha
Thanks, I’ll fix that.
olympicmike - January 8, 2012
Another season with hopes of success comes crashing down with the realization that this is the sos they’ve been doling out for the past 15 years or so; different players, same crap
john13holmes - January 8, 2012
Very true...
you’re absolutely right…I was just pointing out the easiest ones because we lost by 1… if Klay Thompson had half the points he got in the LA game we’d be all hugs and smiles…BTW I’m happy Kwame is for 1 yr because his hands really do suck… I was at last night game and got to see for myself.. I think he lacks hand/eye coordination which is a lack of focus/effort to me.
Five Eighty - January 8, 2012
This is random, but...
Trade Curry + pieces for him (Biedrins/Tyler/Kwame/ETC). If he signs an extension, great! Monta driving and dishing to him would be an AMAZING duo. Almost like Kobe + Shaq lol. The way Monta has been passing to Kwame, if only that was Dwight instead. If he DOESN’T sign an extension, trade him at the deadline for someone. For Bynum??? The Lakers would do that, and in the end, you traded Bynum for Curry, which is still a good trade + you got Dwight for half the season.
gswarriors12 - January 8, 2012
That wouldn't happen
Rarely do you see a guy traded twice before the deadline. In a short season, this is especially unlikely. If the Warriors trade for him, then they’ll hang on to him the rest of the season. It’s not like they would trade for him and he’d immediately tell them that he would not re-sign, giving them time to flip him for Bynum.
duballers23 - January 8, 2012 via mobile
The deadline is during the season so you can’t have Howard for half a season and end up with Bynum. The deadline is next month if I’m not mistaken.
duballers23 - January 8, 2012 via mobile
I am mistaken, but I still see the chances of Howard being traded twice in one season very unlikely.
duballers23 - January 8, 2012 via mobile
True.
But it could be a 3 team trade.
gswarriors12 - January 8, 2012
We might be looking at 6-14 or 5-15 at the end of the month.
duballers23 - January 8, 2012 via mobile
Certainly by the time Curry comes back (if he does as planned), a win will be a lotto draw...
dinohealth - January 8, 2012
Olympic (I love that name) Mike on Monta: "His 32 points and 6 assists were fools gold" Yep, but, it's the closest thing to gold this team has!
Having said that, I agree with your assessment on Lee. People have to realize, with Curry out, Lee and Monta are in there battling all by their lonesomes, with no help from anyone! This team is zilch, thank you Mr. Lacomba/J West for all that brilliance in personnel matters…..If you look at the minutes of Wright and Thompson (about 50), you wonder if Reggie would have had more than the combined 4 points that they delivered! You look at their rebounding, and realize Reggie again would have outdone their combine production. Of course, he hardly ever turned over, and came up with steals. You wonder if Reggie might have gotten us ove the hump last night. Of course, Lacomb let him go in some attempt to swing a biggie whose team had the option to match (what was that all about), and got nothing for him! This team, as is, has…..
dinohealth - January 8, 2012
OM, the link you have for the "final boxscore' brings up the Lakers game! thought u might want to know...
dinohealth - January 8, 2012
i guess
its easy to say that ‘We are a No Excuse Basketball team win/lose’ but 9-11 secs remaining to make a play? wasnt coach J a point guard himself, sorry but you cant make an excuse on that one. whats so bad about this.
stepN30 - January 8, 2012 via Android app
Glad I went to the Sharks game instead of watching this one. Sounds like a typical Warrior loss. Meanwhile I saw a nice 5-2 win by the best run franchise in the Bay Area, and one of the best in major US professional sports. :)
So the highlights made it look like we were down one, dribbled the clock down to the very end, and took a crap buzzer beater as time expired coming off a one on one iso? Please tell me that’s not really what happened?
How did Derrick Favors look? He gonna be a worthwhile player? Burks and Kanter?
What happened on our second to last possession? Play-by-play says bad pass, then we fouled them? Sounds…terrible?
Missing Barry - January 8, 2012
Monta went iso on the 2nd to last possession with the game tied. He lost his dribble and jumped in the air without a place to go and just gave the ball to Gordon Hayward who proceeded to get fouled on the fastbreak. Then Monta has 9 seconds to go and waited until 3 seconds to even start driving the ball and ended up taking a horrible shot.
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
You know it's all bad when most of us guess the last two Warrior posessions of the game.
kenntoe - January 8, 2012
And the sad thing is that those moves were predictable.
Only In Fairfax - January 10, 2012
that is exactly what happened
bigkino217 - January 8, 2012
worst part was that lee actually tipped in the miss, but they didn't go early enough for a tip to be in time.
bigkino217 - January 8, 2012
Sigh. I don’t even know what to say. It’s so….disappointing, disheartening, frustrating, soul crushing….is it really too much to ask the people who are supposed to know the most about basketball of anyone in the world to actually understand the difference between a good shot and a bad one? GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Missing Barry - January 8, 2012
How did Derrick Favors look? He gonna be a worthwhile player? Burks and Kanter?
Favors looks great, Kanter big and strong better than I expected, don’t remember Burks doing much. Haywood was a positive surprise but maybe was just the typical scrub having a career game against the Dubs? IIRC D Lee did that the year before we got him?
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
Bad decisions !!
I agree with five eigthy.With almost 10 seconds on the clock why can’t we run an actual play- one that includes some screening,some actual passing (you know trying to involve the OTHER 4 guys on the team) !!??
I blame this on Coach Jackson.If everyone knows that Monta is going to go 1 on 1,why not do something different or at least have with come off a screen or two to free him up !!
TYPICAL WARRIORS !!!!!!!!!!!!
JEFFSJAZZ - January 8, 2012
Nice job on Mark Jackson’s part pushing Monta to take it to the hole more. Much more efficient as a scorer that way. Also, I wish Jenkins didn’t get so many minutes as Nate and Bosh were much better. Dorell made more sense, because of his play last year. In hindsight, I wish we played more Rush instead.
Naticus - January 8, 2012
*Rush not Bosh… ha ha Wish we had Bosh.
Naticus - January 8, 2012
montas clutch
it would be different if he woulda made it right?? i agree a set play or getting another team mate involved would be nice but montas hit these shots before and every one kno hes capable of making em…if he woulda made it every one woulda said what a great looking shot lol
STEPHnELLIS - January 8, 2012
No. A low percentage shot is a low percentage shot whether it goes in or not. Much like Biedrins making a FT doesn’t make him a good FT shooter, Monta making a tough, but difficult shot to win a game doesn’t make him clutch, nor make it a good shot. We had a couple of them go in last year, and I was right here complaining about how they were crappy quality shots and if we kept doing it, we were gonna lose too often. Those are crap shots, they’re going to miss most of the time, and we’re going to lose too often because of it. Whether he makes it or misses it on any given attempt is irrelevant – most times he’s going to miss.
Missing Barry - January 8, 2012
Instead of showing each buzzer beater Monta's made before the final play
Maybe CSN should show each one he’s missed. Or maybe that montage would run on too long.
ohcleverhansyou - January 8, 2012
Our reactions would be different.
But it’d still be a bad play call.
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
Clutch is more like Kobe's backward leaning mid range jump shot not Monta driving into the teeth of a set defense.
Only In Fairfax - January 10, 2012
Now I'm interested in seeing how Keith Smart calls the end of game plays for the Kings
Because Smart was criticized last season for calling these Monta isos and not running a play. Even on Sactown Royalty, when Smart was signed as head coach, I saw some comments complaining about how bad of a coach Smart would be and again they cited the iso play call.
This season, we have a new coach and coaching staff, but yet again we see another Monta iso at the end of the game. And this comes from Mark Jackson, who played in the NBA as a point guard for X number of years.
Two different coaches, same play. How’s that possible? My guesses:
- Keith Smart isn’t as bad of a coach as people say.
- Mark Jackson is as bad of a coach as Keith Smart.
- Neither coach believes the team’s execution of a play is reliable enough at the end of the game.
- Neither coach believes Monta’s decision and play making is reliable enough at the end of the game.
- Both coaches believe Monta one-on-one is the most reliable play they have at getting a score.
- Some other reason I can’t think of.
My guess is that it’s a combination of the middle 3, that the team execution and Monta running a play aren’t reliable enough, and one-on-one is simplest, most executable play we have right now.
So I’m eager to see what kind of play Smart draws up for the Kings at the end of the game. If Smart runs an actual play for the Kings, then either Smart learned to change his end of game plays, or it supports my guess that the Monta iso is the best play he had or felt comfortable with. If Smart still calls for an iso, then there’s no new conclusion to be made.
IQofaWarrior - January 8, 2012
Marc Jackson worshiped at the altar of Kobe Bryant as an announcer. He probably likes the style that Kobe plays at the end of games.
Reverend_Randy - January 8, 2012
True.
I think that has something to do with it definitely.
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
But how would that explain Keith Smart calling for the same iso play?
IQofaWarrior - January 8, 2012
Smarts end of game play calling didn't bug me
The two times we ran them for Steph, he got embarrassed because physical defenders more or less tackled him. This year it might not be the case with the new stronger steph.
What bothered me was Smarts awful rotation and inability to recognize how ti utilize what he had in Steph.
tafkasam - January 9, 2012
EVERYONE runs an iso at end of games
You put the ball into your best players hands and have him make a decision.
The difference is good teams (like Boston or Dallas) know how to effectively MOVE off that player. You don’t see Kidd, Terry, Marion standing in the corner drinking mimosa’s like some girls on their sunday gossip brunch. That’s probably the best way to describe the way our guys stood around last night.
Once you have that, you start to question, the ‘best players’ decision making ability. Can he find the open man? Does he take a good shot?
tafkasam - January 9, 2012
Most run isos, though not all. That doesn’t make it right. For a while in baseball, everyone saved their closer for save situations. It was stupid. A number of managers are starting to move away from that now. Just because everyone is doing it does not necessarily mean it’s correct.
Missing Barry - January 9, 2012
For a while in baseball, everyone saved their closer for save situations. It was stupid.
Depends on how much work he can get just pitching save situations? If he don’t get enough then he should pitch a few non save situations but if he gets plenty just pitching saves they shouldn’t overwork him.
Skeptic con Urquell - January 9, 2012
Nope.
The logic is that you should use your best reliever for the most crucial moments.
eg, up by one, man on second, one out, bottom of the seventh is a more crucial situation than bases empty, no outs, bottom of the ninth. If you’re only willing to pitch your best reliever one inning, you should do it now, to snuff out the most dangerous situation.
THe old conventional wisdom was that you bring in one of your middle (not as good) relievers and hope he gets you out of this jam so that your closer can pitch the easier ninth. He won’t get a save (because somebody else will finish the game) but the situation is more crucial.
You would rather have him pitching the non-save situation than the save one.
Ronaldinho - January 9, 2012
up by one, man on second, one out, bottom of the seventh is a more crucial situation than bases empty, no outs, bottom of the ninth. If you’re only willing to pitch your best reliever one inning, you should do it now,
You are forgetting that most teams have competent dedicated 7th and 8th inning guys who are more used to that role than a closer would be. The season is long and the roles are well defined so unless it’s a win or go home situation it makes more sense to go with the game plan. If the closer is marginal then switching roles doesn’t really matter but you won’t see MarianoRivera pitching in many 7th inning jams and it’s worked out pretty well for the yanks over the years.
Skeptic con Urquell - January 9, 2012
You’d be surprised.
Missing Barry - January 10, 2012
Our only hope for end game clutchwork would be.....
If Currie’s ankle miraculously heals + Klay miraculously becomes Reggie Miller.
This is about as close to actually praying that I get .
Only In Fairfax - January 10, 2012
"- Keith Smart isn’t as bad of a coach as people say."
I think this is part of it and mainly because if you watch basketball games at any level, men’s or women’s, so many teams resort to 1 on 1 plays at the end of games.
I think it is a matter of what people think is “minimizing the risk” of a turnover/leaving the ball in the hands of a poor scorer with the clock nearing its end and wanting to let the stars make plays.
It’s something that never makes sense to me when a team has obviously been doing something right all game to get to the point of having a game-winning shot opportunity.
Nate Parham - January 8, 2012
I agree it’s a popular mentality. It strikes me as a similar type of groupthink as some of the baseball ideas that have been debunked over the last few years as people got more into stats – like the role of a closer just to get saves, which turns out to be a pretty crappy way to use a good relief pitcher. It doesn’t make sense to me, either.
Missing Barry - January 8, 2012
I wonder if it's a risk-minimizing strategy.
If the player takes the shot and misses, the narrative is “well, I got the ball into the hands of the right player – it’s not my fault the shot didn’t fall.”
Whereas if a complex play results in a turnover, the coach gets blamed for trying to do too much.
Ronaldinho - January 8, 2012
The teams that don’t play hero ball (Celtics, Chris Paul’s teams, Spurs) all play better in crunch time than teams that do. I don’t get why other teams can’t follow suit.
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
Because the NBA has a highlight-reel culture fueled by the desire to perform or see the “difficult and amazing” play over the “correct and efficient” one.
WYK - January 8, 2012
With the Celtics, their end of game play call is usually 1 of 2 things. Looking for a Ray Allen jumper off a screen, or putting it into the hands of Paul Pierce.
Pierce wasn’t there for the loss against NY, and they ended up with a KG off-balance jumper because Ray was well-covered. They play “hero ball” just as much as anyone else at the end of games. I do like that they give two options, but it’s not like they run a play that could result in a wide open look.
And Chris Paul…hello? He almost always has the ball at the end of games. They rely on him to make the play, shot or pass. I’d be interested to see how many game winning chances for the Hornets over the past 5 years don’t go into his hands. I remember a couple times giving West a chance on post-up, but usually it’s Chris Paul coming off a screen and trying to make something happen.
Bottom line is, almost no teams draw up something complicated at the end of games. The Spurs might be the only exception in certain situations. They tend to kick it in and out and around the perimeter a bit before finding a shot.
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
I do think this was a bad play call
not necessarily because it was a 1-on-1 iso, but because Raja Bell is a veteran defender who knows exactly how much of a foul he can get away with on a final possession. He played it perfectly, and Monta shooting OVER him is not a good play because he has the size advantage. If you run a screen and then let him iso, maybe you end up with a better match-up, or an easy look at the rim.
I’d have run an iso and been happy with it if any other Jazz player was guarding Monta in that situation. It would have been a match-up that benefited Monta then. But not against Raja. He’s too smart of a defender, wily a veteran. He’s not going to let you get off a good shot, and without the ability to shoot over him cleanly, its just way too difficult of a proposition.
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
You didn't read the TrueHoop articles from last year I guess.
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
Abbott and the others?
I stopped reading them a while ago. I give most of their articles a chance, but if I can’t make it through the first paragraph, I usually give up.
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
Why would you do that?
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
Cuz they don't have anything to say that I'm interested in hearing.
And I can figure out if it’s the same old song as soon as I start reading.
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
You're better than that.
That’s like the person who covers their ears and screams “I’m not listening.”
Even if you disagree with their conclusions, they definitely had some great information that you could parse over.
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
I can't get that information
without actually reading their take on it.
So, I would offer to you a different observation:
They’re NOT better than that. And not worth my time.
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
*I can get
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
when was the last time monta passed one?
bigkino217 - January 8, 2012
Couldn't tell you.
But I also know that Monta Ellis is not Chris Paul, and I’m sure you’ll wholeheartedly agree with that.
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
agreed
i think when gov mentioned “hero ball” he was referring to teams that just isolate one player and let them create their own shot all the time rather than looking to get others involved as paul does.
bigkino217 - January 8, 2012
Well, I think that could work for us
but not if its Raja. They were smart enough not to crash on him a second time ebacuse they knew raja could handle the matchup. If it’s Hayward, or Burks, or Harris, or a big, it’s a huge advatange towards us.
Not chance to even make a pass, whereas Paul does a great job at the end of games of getting a big on him off a screen.
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
Passing is the opposite of playing hero ball.
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
Paul Pierce doesn't pass once he gets it on a final possession
and as I was saying, often Chris Paul doesn’t.
“Hero ball” isn’t always a bad thing. It’s about match-ups and being smart with each and everyone of your dribbles and steps. You should always make the threat of a pass, but you don’t necessarily have to do it.
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
monta doesn't even threaten to pass though
he plays last second shots like kobe does.
bigkino217 - January 8, 2012
The problem is Pierce does pass the ball in crunch time.
See below.
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
Less to do with 'hero ball' more to do with off ball movement
KG is infinitely smarter than David Lee (and beyond that, capable of doing something when he recognizes where to go)
And Ray Allen is 1 of the 2 best off ball players I’ve seen in my lifetime.
tafkasam - January 9, 2012
agree
monta never mastered the “last game winning shot” compared to Kobe. When Kobe has the ball and with all those many game winning shot that he made, you can only pray that he misses but when Monta has the ball, your likely to pray more that he makes it in.
stepN30 - January 8, 2012 via Android app
Or you can just hope that reality sets in, and Kobe makes those game winning shots at a league average rate, which, coincidentally enough, is pretty much exactly how well Kobe shoots in those situations. He has many, many game winning shots. He also has many, many game losing shots. If there’s one certainty when it comes to Kobe, it’s that you know he is going to shoot the ball.
Missing Barry - January 8, 2012
as MB said
kobe is actually right at the league average of ~28% on game winning/tying shots in the last 24 seconds of a game.
bigkino217 - January 8, 2012
great players understand that they need to pass the ball to open teammates sometimes
and not just take every final shot. MJ did it, kobe doesn’t for the most part (1 assist vs 59 career attempts)
bigkino217 - January 8, 2012
that 59 attempts may have gone up, haven't been paying close enough attention.
bigkino217 - January 8, 2012
The problem is, that's just one shot
The whole crunch time thing to me, is decision making as a whole down the stretch. It’s why good teams win and bad teams lose. Over the course of the final 5-10 possessions they know how to clamp down and decide a game by a close margin.
Did you know Monta’s crunch time TS% is .611 last year?!
Definited by games where 4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points
OF course the problem is, he averaged 4.0 AP48, aka 1 every 12 minutes. Compare that to Kobe (7.6) or Rose 9.8.
tafkasam - January 9, 2012
seeing as we were talking about final possessions
i dont see how this is relevant.
bigkino217 - January 9, 2012
We're also talking about isos
which we ran a lot in crunch time overall
Brownie13 - January 10, 2012
...but Monta obviously not Kobe
You know Kobe would have made the last shot.
W’s losses this year have been because of Kobe, Nash, Paul, and Parker all dealing at the end. Monta’s not the guy to do it.
GBMarin - January 9, 2012
Hmm? I know Kobe would have been much more likely to miss it than make it. As has been discussed in this thread, he shoots those kinds of shots at around a league average % – something like 28% or so.
Missing Barry - January 9, 2012
i know kobe would have made the last shot about 28% of the time
bigkino217 - January 9, 2012
Simply not true. I can provide you a few examples just off the top of my head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A69m9Hh643E Big Baby Buzzer Beater vs. Magic – Assisted by Pierce Pierce is unselfish and passes it to Davis, who is open.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k_DR-j4A4A&feature=related Pierce passes to Ray Allen for the game winning 3. Notice how Pierce looks for Allen and doesn’t go for the win himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC7cpeAqL94 Pierce finds a teammate in the corner for the buzzer beater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r-IVz55YAo&feature=related Pierce again has a game winning assist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmKRsKTMWsk Pierce again assists on a buzzer beater.
I’ll repeat to you your own words:
Lets be real here.Superstars (or even stars) don’t have to take the last shot. Finding a teammate who is open always is a better shot than a contested fadeaway isolation.
GovernorStephCurry - January 8, 2012
u rite
imma go ahead and STFU about the Celtics final possessions
Brownie13 - January 8, 2012
It is a bit easier when you have those players.
However it seems pretty logical to at least mix it up rather than be so obvious for craps sake!
Only In Fairfax - January 10, 2012
If by risk-minimizing, you're referring to risk of blame, then I highly doubt it.
Coaches get blamed for a lot of things: losing streaks, lineups, players minutes, substitutions, not developing or playing young players, offensive/defensive plays called, xth quarter collapses.
Getting blamed for running a complex play that results in a turnover is just another thing that gets added to the blame list after a loss. So I really doubt “i’m going to get blamed” gets factored in when deciding on the final play of the game, not even at a subconscious level.
IQofaWarrior - January 8, 2012
Right
And let’s be honest: if our critique of the team at this point is that they don’t seem to have a coherent offense, it’s unlikely that they’re suddenly going to run through a set in a shortened time frame.
Nate Parham - January 8, 2012
A reasonable point, but I will add that our last shot last night was among the worst plays we ran all night. (We ran other plays equally bad, but none worse).
Ronaldinho - January 8, 2012
lol! IQ, you surprise me! Smart sucked! Jackson does not have the scorers Smart had (particularly 3pt shooters)!
This game was not lost in the last 10 seconds. This game was lost when we let Reggie and Vlad go, in favor of Klay, and Smart’s former go-to-3pt- shooting (chucking) marvel, D Wright! Add to that, NO CURRY, and you conclude that it is a testament to Jackson and his staff that these games are even close! You can call any play at the end of the game for anyone, but under the circumstances described above, Monta is the best option (or, perhaps, the ONLY option left)! This is a non-competitive team that we are fielding, and headed straight for the cellar, regardless of who the coach is!
PS: Mind you, I was not a Jackson supporter, as I felt we needed a seasoned coach. Neither I, nor, Jackson, when he was hired, could have imagined that we would let go, key, proven, pieces from last year’s team, and, field a weaker, patchwork-team this year!
dinohealth - January 9, 2012
So I’m eager to see what kind of play Smart draws up for the Kings at the end of the game
they won his first game right at the end. Reading the sactown royal tea thread IIRC it had something to do with a salmon’s 3 and something that tyreke drew a foul on?
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
I just checked the nba.com recap for that game
The Kings took the lead on 2 Tyreke FTs that he drew on a fast break. Bucks played the foul game with them afterwards. There was no last play of the game for the Kings.
IQofaWarrior - January 8, 2012
The Kings took the lead on 2 Tyreke FTs that he drew on a fast break.
did salmons do something good right before that to get them close after playing a pretty crappy game? smart must have had some faith in him?
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
he defended Stephen Jackson well on the Bucks last offensive play
who is another two guard often trapped playing at the three spot so not the biggest deal in the world. People were just excited because Salmons was having a horrid game but started contributing with about 6 minutes left.
wallywagon11 - January 8, 2012
People were just excited because Salmons was having a horrid game but started contributing with about 6 minutes left.
Thanks Wally, I couldn’t get that game on TV but I read the recap shortly after.
Skeptic con Urquell - January 8, 2012
Welcome back Wally!
Only In Fairfax - January 10, 2012
klay
klay need to knock down his shot at home, with all those bricks, pretty soon itll be called OraKlay Arena. hopefully we can get a win LEGITIMATELY. praying
stepN30 - January 8, 2012 via Android app
The "foul" (block) on Goofy Hayward and the missed call "out on us" when Lee tipped it then one of the Jazz touched it while trying to save it.
Both those calls made it that much harder, but Monta’s turnover and the fail fastbreak also hurt. When you’re the Warriors you have a shorter leash for mistakes like these. Still sucks. Let’s just keep losing because I don’t want to win. I want Anthony Davis.
true torture - January 8, 2012
Its time to move DWright to the bench
I could almost tolerate his horrendous shooting if his defense wasn’t as equally poor. In the last three games alone he has continually sagged off his man and allowed big games for Richard Jefferson, Matt Barnes, and Gordon Hayward. Coach Jackson claims defense will dictate how long a player plays, we saw Dorell play fewer minutes in this game so hopefully this trend will continue. Rush(or Mcguire) is more than ready to assume the starting role, and the competition may light a fire under Wright to improve.
warriorsandgiantsfan - January 8, 2012
How the hell did Lee get the WW with 9 votes?
ejdacanay - January 8, 2012
this one is different from the other one
this one is just the opinion of the poster
bigkino217 - January 8, 2012
Oh I thought it was more of a communal choice.
But it’s all in the eyes of the poster I guess.
ejdacanay - January 8, 2012
Jenkins being passive
The bit on Jenkins being passive was interesting. Now Jenkins knows how Jeremy Lin felt last season. Jenkins (like Lin last season) was a rookie and is thrown into a situation where one guy (Monta) dominates the ball a lot. Jenkins (again like Lin), was the leader of his college team and probably more a scorer than a point guard. In seeing Jenkins during the preseason, I thought he could be more effective than Lin. Jenkins has better handles, shot better and seemed to pick the right spots to attack. Well, now that it’s game time and Jenkins is only playing a few minutes here and there, he is probably running into the same issue Lin had. Jenkins doesn’t know when to go and when not to go. Plus, it’s not like there’s a set offense to run. So, Jenkins dribbles up and passes it to Monta and stands around. Nothing new there Mr. Jenkins. Ask Mr. Lin about how that felt! :)
Lin had it worse in the sense that he had BOTH Curry / Monta and Acie Law ahead of him. Law definitely wasn’t afraid to shoot and jacked up his share of shots. On the other hand, when Lin was paired with Curry, I think Curry passed to him when he was open. No such luck for Jenkins. Also, while I think Monta is making an effort to involve his teammates this season, I think it takes time to earn Monta’s trust (just ask Curry).
The odd thing out of all of this? Lin was a salary cap casualty and also viewed as expendable due to Jenkins . However, Lin did play some reasonable defense and might have gotten a chance to play with the Warriors new focus on defense. Instead, Jenkins isn’t playing well, Ish Smith is on the bench and Lin is languishing in NY and we got an even smaller guard in Nate Robinson.
coach41 - January 9, 2012
lol, not a bad analogy and analysis, coach!
dinohealth - January 9, 2012
Jenkins...
I thought it was interesting that he talked so much about Coach Jackson wanting him to be a vocal leader on the floor during training camp, but so far we haven’t seen that at all. I can fully appreciate the difficulty of his situation, being thrown in there next to Monta it can’t be easy to take charge and demand the ball. It looks like Jackson wants his point guard to take control and manage the game, and at this point Nate has done a much better job of holding his own.
olympicmike - January 9, 2012
Rec'd coach ...good points...
Only In Fairfax - January 10, 2012
Sorry but no
I have a connection with Jenkins and he mainly jut knows it is Monta’s team , he doesn’t want to just come out gunning cause that isn’t his place right now. Rather that is smart or not is something else.
He hasn’t gotten enough time to get anything going playing a few minutes at a time. He’s not Nate Robinson where he’s quick explosive offense. He lets the game come to him and shoots when needed after he’s gotten into the flow. He’s a very capable scorer when he tries to score. He’s a 2nd round rookie playing 4-5 minutes at a time, he won’t come out and go bombs away cause that is an easy way to get benched for good. He plays with poise, not wild aggression. To see his full effect as a player he shouldn’t be pulled so fast
dubzfan - January 10, 2012
hey folks, it's a bit late, but since there's no other Dubs news...
anybody else see this piece on WW?
link
hopefully no one else catches on to this, because I definitely noticed it as well. Monta has been getting lucky with those assists, but it is just a matter of time before folks get wise to the fact that he often gets himself caught in mid-air with no idea what to do with the ball
Duby Dub Dubs - January 9, 2012
Well, then you hope Monta adjusts and starts scoring if the help starts backing off.
Missing Barry - January 9, 2012
This
but I would like him to make crisper decisions, and be able to make plays from the ground as well as in the air. It would make him all the more dangerous.
Brownie13 - January 10, 2012
Rose did it all of last season lol
Brownie13 - January 10, 2012
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