Golden State Of Mind

Only In Fairfax - January 22, 2012 reply

Wait a minutes...I remember quite a large number here wanted Iggy for Monta?

Iggy.

But remember everyone said Monta would change with a new coach? And I mean everyone?!?

everyone?

I don’t remember either of us saying that ;)

We really need to figure out this big man situation

Assuming Lee isn’t going unless someone is crazy enough to think Monta + Lee are worth a star.

What exactly is best big man to play next to him? Cause I still feel it’s someone like Frye, Okur, etc.

tafkasam - January 21, 2012 reply

ok, here's what I would do if there were no constraints (no "public" pressure)

Starters would become:

Curry
Klay
Rush
Udoh
Biedrins

The starting unit would be better defensively (much better) than what we have now.

Bench:

Nate/Jenkins
Ellis
Wright
McGuire
Lee

Pretty much what some of our starting units have looked like. That would still have a ton of offense, and the defense would be worse, but probably ok facing bench units.

This won’t happen because people will say it’s crazy. But to me, that would be the way this team could realistically win some more games. The front office has everything backwards.

I have been thinking about splitting the team into two units, too

and this is the lineup I pretty much came up with as well. We’re still an offensive team and that’s our edge against the other teams. Phoenix was in this situation two years ago and they split into offensive and defensive units. It worked out well for them to the point where the bench unit would close out games.

GoldenBlue - January 21, 2012 reply

What do you all think about a Boozer for Lee Swap

Boozer would give us a post presence we need. Lee would probably fit in better with Chicago and their defensive tandem at center (we could send them a tape of Lee shutting down Bosh against Miami). We might even be able to get a draft pick out of it. Boozer’s contract is also a year shorter.

pericles31081 - January 22, 2012 reply

Maybe it could be followed with a Beans for Frye and filler trade with Phoenix

pericles31081 - January 22, 2012 reply

why would phoenix want beans? gortat is really good

lee and boozer are pretty much the same player

and boozer costs more.

They both are not good defensive players

However, Boozer is a beast down low who can score in the post. Lee is not big or strong enough to muscle in baskets and has to rely on his quickness. Boozer would not have to rely on the pick and roll, which our ballhandlers seem like they have a hard time accomplishing. Boozer is more expensive, but one less year on the contract.

pericles31081 - January 22, 2012 reply

that move would basically eliminate any cap space we have next offseason

for a marginal upgrade

Honestly it won't change much. They have is liar impacts on the game

*similar

ILoveWarriorsGirls - January 23, 2012 reply

lipstick on a pig

different shade of lipstick, same uly pig

Evanz - January 22, 2012 reply

Lee for Boozer...

Hope people now know that Lee’s $12mil is a steal!

just because it's better than a horrifically bad contract doesn't mean it's a good contract

bigkino217 - January 23, 2012 reply

so what contract is good?

Amare’s? Melo’s?

ILoveWarriorsGirls - January 23, 2012 reply

most superstars and rookies

bigkino217 - January 23, 2012 reply

meant to say players on rookie contracts, not just rookies

bigkino217 - January 23, 2012 reply

We really need to figure out this big man situation

haha, What else is new? We knew we had a big man problem when we lost to utah in the playoffs. No one in charge of this team wants to fix the big man situation otherwise they’d have done it by now, perhaps there’s a secret clause in the oracle lease that prevents it?

Skeptic con Urquell - January 21, 2012 reply

We knew we had a big man problem when we lost to utah in the playoffs

that late? i knew we had a big man problem since like 1995 ;)

we had a big man problem since Robert Parrish was traded

What could've been

Monta can't penetrate to the hoop anymore

because all his passes down low go to the big under the hoop. He makes it easy for defenses to just clog the lane against him (maybe Monta has been practicing that in anticipation of Dwight?). The Warriors have some very good 3 point shooters. If Monta would pass out he would force the defenses to play him honest and he wouldn’t be taking so many of those spinning fadeaways that he learned from watching Kobe film.

I bring up Monta because he has been the teams best offensive player and the team needs him to be able to get to the rim and make layups like he does so well. With outside shooters like Curry, Dorrell, Rush, and Klay, it’s a crime if they don’t force other teams to guard those guys.

This comes down to coaching IMO. They need to fix this.

cybermaldonado - January 21, 2012 reply

+1

gswarriors12 - January 22, 2012 reply

Our teams problems stem from the front court

With Klay starting to play well our guards are hardly an issue, Wright is playing better so SF isn’t an issue either. But Lee’s inability to play against good bigs like he should, Udoh’s lack of rebounding and Biedrins’ overall psyche is why this team struggles.

We could upgrade at SF, PG or SG at the deadline and still not get any better.

dubzfan - January 21, 2012 reply

I would agree with you. Lee, AB, and Udoh should be up on the trading block to see if we can get JaVale McGee.

Likely, we’ll have to put one of the backcourt up, too. Kwame Brown would be someone I would want the Warriors to bring back. He brought a presence in the middle that I have never seen on the modern day Warriors.

callahan - January 21, 2012 reply

I've been stalking the Wizards board

They are so torn on McGee, some say he is a selfish only cares about flash type of guy and will never be a good player on a good team while others say the moment he leaves Washington he will become a star

dubzfan - January 21, 2012 reply

McGee would not solve anything.

He gets good stats sometimes but he lacks consistency and doesn’t lock down the paint. Only thing he got going is that he may still have some potential with more experience. Unfortunately Javale will get paid soon.

Hard to believe Udoh would be a starter. He has regressed this season. He would be the first to put up in trade.

Maybe he would be better off on a different team who would use his defense more effectively.

callahan - January 21, 2012 reply

Hard to believe Udoh would be a starter. He has regressed this season.

Really? How so? Seems like pretty much the same guy to me. Sure his offensive results have been a bit worse so far, but his rebounding has been up. I don’t see much of a difference overall.

olympicmike - January 21, 2012 reply

Not much difference seems to be the disappointing thing. At 24/25 he ain't gonna get much better than he is now

He was a better shot blocker last year although last game he did get to 3.

bloodsweatndonuts - January 21, 2012 reply

If this season was an episode Iron Chef . . .

The secret ingredient would be Bull S**t.

From Joe Lacob to Mark Jackson, all they’ve done is speak in vague and grandiose platitudes about how this is a guaranteed playoff team. Yet, it still has the distinct flavor and aroma of losing basketball.

BSD

Your posts are pure gold today.

olympicmike - January 21, 2012 reply

I think the only reason that Mark Jackson is the head coach...

is that MJ told Lacob he can get Chandler to join Warriors, guaranteed. I mean, I haven’t seen MJ does the play on the court at all, Mike does all the plays for Warriors.

ILoveWarriorsGirls - January 23, 2012 reply

we all knew Mark Jackson was good at talkin bs

maryjane - January 21, 2012 reply

I'm starting to get the feeling that Curry...

… will be gone at the deadline. I had high hopes for Jackson and have liked some of his decisions… but he has caught the Monta disease. The same disease that Smart had. As long as we have a coach that believes Monta is “the man” we will be stuck here. Monta needs a coach who will restrain his game to build on his strengths… I hoped MJ could be that coach, but it’s just more of the same.

We will move Curry most likely for a borderline all-star “win now” player or possibly a 1/2 season rental of a superstar looking to kill time before going to another team. It will suck.

warriorsablaze - January 21, 2012 reply

Problem with your logic

When you look at this roster as constructed…..Monta pretty much has to be the man. This team could go with some serious upgrades in the frontcourt, and Steph’s ankle injuries has really limited him and put his future here in question.

As for needing a coach to restrain Monta’s game, I dunno if you’ve watched any Warrior games at all this year, but if you have you should have noticed that Monta has been putting alot more emphasis on getting his team involved. This team without Curry only has Nate Robinson as a guy who can create offense, and since Curry has been out with injury, Monta has been forced more to become the sole playmaker and scoring threat for the starting unit.

kyzah - January 21, 2012 reply

With Curry out...

.. I do recognize that Monta has to take on more… but it’s the WAY that’s taken form that bothers me. Yes, he has improved at the drive and dish (not the drive and kick, though)…but mostly the offense ends up being Monta iso. Even if he’s “the man”, there are better ways to run the offense and put him (and others) in a position to score. As long as our coach believes in using Monta like Kobe… AND believes that as the best way to win…. we are screwed. MJax is clearly high on Monta, but not for the right reasons.

Philly doesn’t even have someone designated as “the man” and are blowing folks out… granted, they have defensive 2-way players, but they don’t really have better offensive players than us, they are just being used correctly.

warriorsablaze - January 21, 2012 reply

Monta pretty much has to be the man.

No, he doesn’t. They said the same thing in Denver about Melo. Denver is now better than they were with Melo.

Even with Curry in the lineup, and Klay and Rush shooting well from 3, Monta is still taking lots of bad shots. There’s no excuse for this. A good coach would recognize the problem and fix it.

not to mention Lee

this team has plenty of offensive weapons, we’re not Milwaukee here

No, he doesn’t. They said the same thing in Denver about Melo. Denver is now better than they were with Melo.

Read what I said again….or read it for the first time. I said this team AS CONSTRUCTED needs Monta to be “the man”. Your example of Melo is flawed, his old team needed him to be “the man”, but the trade brought in like 4 quality players, and now rather than trying to beat people with their superstar, the trade has allowed them to beat teams with their tremendous depth. If we could get back 4 quality players for Monta, I’d do it in heartbeat, We can’t.

Even with Curry in the lineup, and Klay and Rush shooting well from 3, Monta is still taking lots of bad shots. There’s no excuse for this

Monta is going to take bad shots. He’s not the only one (he is the one that gets ripped the most for it obviously). Rush and Klay can hit open shots, but more often then not those shots need to be created for them, otherwise they are ineffective (Rush less so cause he at least brings solid defense).

this team has plenty of offensive weapons

Once again, I encourage you to read my post before you make assumptions about what I said. I never once said this team didn’t have offensive weapons. What I said was that Monta, without Curry in the lineup, is the only STARTER who can create shots consistently for himself and others. Lee can get his own shot depending on the matchup, but he is much more effective in catch and shoot situations or pick and roll/pop. He isn’t going to take many players off the dribble.

kyzah - January 21, 2012 reply

This team without Curry only has Nate Robinson as a guy who can create offense

No, I don’t buy this. Your definition of “create offense” is “uh, Monta, iso”. If you have a bunch of good shooters, you don’t need all the isolation. You just have to find the open man and pass it to him. That’s a good offense. That’s what Denver does. That’s what Philly does. They don’t have a ton of shot creators either.

Your definition of "create offense" is "uh, Monta, iso

You don’t have to agree with my points, thats fine if you don’t. But making up false statements about what you think I said or implied doesn’t make your arguments any more valid. I don’t particularly like Monta iso as a a “go to” play, and I certainly don’t like it as a “4th quarter last possession in a close game” play.

What I have noticed is that before we got Nate Robinson, our bench was horrible (Rush was good but he played alot with the starters). The reason Nate has been so valuable is because he solidifies our bench by giving it a competent play maker who can make his own shots.

You just have to find the open man and pass it to him. That’s a good offense

Again, where did I ever say thats not the case? I said that with Curry out, Monta is the only starter who is consistently creating open looks for his teammates. For example, last nights game Ellis dropped in 6 assists. Curry dropped in 3. Lee dropped in 2, and Beans and Wright 0. Looking at our bench, we had 7 assists from the bench crew, 5 were from Robinson. This team needs Curry, simply because his passing will help create more looks for our offensive weapons, who need to be fed the ball in their spots to be effective.

You don’t have to buy it. You just need to accept it as a reality of this roster.

kyzah - January 21, 2012 reply

You don’t have to buy it. You just need to accept it as a reality of this roster.

Uh, that would be buying it, right? I don’t.

I think we suffer from not having a legit pg with vision

We have great spot shooters and a good pg would be able to find these guys. Montana and his tunnel vision can only see guys directly in front of him.

F'n auto correct. Monta!

we need Montana, though

Evanz - January 22, 2012 reply

what a pg he would have been...

cybermaldonado - January 23, 2012 reply

Haha

Imagine “The Catch” followed by a ferocious dunk.

olympicmike - January 23, 2012 reply

LOL we'll see if they make the conference finals any time soon

it's not that much of a stretch

the top teams in the west outside of okc have all regressed

that team isn't going anywhere

when defenses D up in the post-season, and refs become a little less whistle-friendly, their offense won’t be the same. that gimmicky 2 point guard lineup? maybe they’re expecting Andre Miller to grow another few inches. Galinari’s flailing? LOL Lebron or Wade would be lucky to get some of those calls in the post-season. there’s not one person on that team with the ability to lead a team to victory in tightly contested, tough game. andre miller would fit great, next to somebody great. al harrington? nene’s too damn passive. Gallo’s a wet noodle with a good amount of basketball skill and size. LOL theyre starting Timofey Mozgov. the only place that guy has Biedrins beat is in FT%, and he shoots 1 of those a game. they have decent amount of good players. guys that would fit nicely on a team with the pieces to win a championship already. the problem? they don’t have those pieces.

they do not impress me in the slightest way.

curious

what teams in the west have impressed you?

okc

minus the loss to washington

sometimes portland…but sometimes not

and utah since the 1-3 start. not sure if it’s sustainable for them, though.

agreed with those three teams

but i also don’t see utah keeping it up, and i dont think it’s that out of line to think denver could beat portland. okc is really the only team in the west i can’t even see denver beating.

well u asked me to name teams that impressed me.

u didn’t ask me to name teams I thought could beat Denver in a playoff series

Memphis
San Antonio
Dallas
Lakers

That’s all as currently constructed.

im just saying

just because a team hasn’t impressed you doesn’t mean they can’t make the conference finals.

well if they don't impress me

and I have them listed as the 6th, 7th, or 8th best team in the conference (in terms of how I see their chances in a 7-game playoff series), then it would be highly unlikely that I expect them to get there.

and my initial comment was:

we’ll see

so i didn’t say it was impossible

would you like their chances more if they got back wilson chandler in march?

or jr smith, or kenyon martin, or any combination of the 3

getting all 3 might change things more

but I see them getting just Wilson back at best

he’s the only RFA

the other two will have interest from other teams, and may not even want to return to Denver. I know that JR has pretty much worn out his welcome there, and that the thought was if the season did happen, he’d almost certainly be playing elsewhere. Kenyon wants to win a championship, and I doubt he’s got much confidence in a team without a star.

i dont think kenyon makes much of an impact anyways

the other 2 possibly can

u think Smith returns to Denver?

really? u do?

im just saying of the 3, those 2 are the ones that can make an impact in the playoffs

but to be clear, no i dont think smith resigns

which is why im not counting on it

so they get chandler back and end up where I had them 5 comments ago lol

a little

not much

because the way I see it

Memphis is going to get back Z-Bo

Spurs are going to get back Ginobili

Dirk and Kidd cannot play any worse than this (at least im pretty sure)

and eventually the Lakers will find someone that can knock down a perimeter shot.

not to mention, I think all of these teams will get a boost in the playoffs that Denver won’t because they’ve been there before and know how to do it.

not to mention, I think all of these teams will get a boost in the playoffs that Denver won’t because they’ve been there before and know how to do it.

by “there” do you mean the conference finals? because some of the denver players are still there from that 09 run, and memphis has never been there.

yeah that’s what I meant.

i meant they had players whove led them there before

i wrote about 3 more teams after memphis, so I’d forgotten they were included when I said all

i don't really see the spurs being any better than they were last season

obviously not regular season-wise since they were the 1 seed, but playoff-wise

mainly, i dont think they get out of the first round.

that's possible in my mind too

okc
portland
dallas
memphis
los angeles

as teams I have ahead of them, all I needed was 4 and I have 5

I like their bench more.

and Ginobili struggled in that series last year because he was dealing with the arm. he pretty much had to keep that elbow bent.

yea but duncan is also a year older

he seems to finally be aging after putting up consistent stats for 12 or 13 years straight.

and i think they lost a lot by giving up george hill as their backup point

tj ford fits them better

spark of creation and speed off the bench who’s runs the offense very well when Parker comes off the floor. George Hill is a good player, but Gary Neal compares very well, since Hill is more of an undersized 2 than a true PG. Ford is a true PG, so they have penetration coming off the bench.

i'm a bit skeptical that ford can stay healthy

well that would change things quite a bit

they dont have anyone else to fill that role, and their bench would turn into a pretty terrible unit.

agreed

if he does stay healthy

do you think he has a big enough impact to actually change their chances?

i certainly think he helps

factor in that when manu comes back, kawhi (?) moves back to the bench and their bench is pretty solid. it all hinges on ford though, because neal doesn’t capably play the point, joseph isn’t ready, and i don’t think counting on tony parker to play more than like 36 mins is a good idea.

i still don’t think they get out of the first round though.

duncan

is saving all that he has for a post-season run. not sure how much better he’ll be then than he is now, but I expect his minutes to increase and his focus and energy to improve

Clippers?

no

im far less impressed with them than the nuggets

my opinion on them is more likely to change, though, since they’re still gelling. nuggets have had these guys since last year. they aren’t adapting to having a new best player on a shortened training camp.

They made it out of the first round once with Melo.

You're acting like I don't know this.

I'm trying to figure out what your comment meant then lol?

That the team they had in 09 is better than the one they have now.

And I expect it to be better than anyone they have in the near future, barring a major roster shake-up (ie adding a star)

I don't know.

Seems like they got pretty lucky. As we’re seeing this year in New York, Melo isn’t very good.

i love that vegas still hasnt figured out that new york and boston aren't very good teams.

they keep making the lines about 5 points too high.

Boston still is a team that could do damage in the playoffs.

they’re essentially just trying to make the playoffs this year.

They might be able to do damage if they get Rondo some help.

They don’t necessarily need to break it up like Ainge is thinking, but the older guys do need to start pulling their weight, and they NEED to get some sort of center.

there are so many things wrong in New York right now that making a comparison to anything that’s happened previously to players and coaches involved with the team, would be pointless

you don’t take the best team in the league to 6 games by being lucky. you don’t demolish the Mavericks by being lucky. you don’t show complete dominance against the Hornets by being lucky. they were not lucky.

As we’re seeing this year in New York, Melo isn’t very good.

as a playmaker, not so much.

They are trying to run Melo as a point forward, not the best idea.

tafkasam - January 22, 2012 reply

which is why i think Baron is their only hope

If he can get in shape, he can run d’antoni’s system.

Amare for one is desperate for a PG. Melo will benefit from getting set up in better positions too…

tafkasam - January 22, 2012 reply

What would be the Synergy if we took Greg Monroe instead of Udoh?

callahan - January 21, 2012 reply

Monta posting up=good.

Monta iso=bad.

math has never been so easy

Besides Trig!

Skeptic con Urquell - January 22, 2012 reply

SOHCAHTOA!

The things you remember 12-13 years later.

tafkasam - January 22, 2012 reply

The things you remember 12-13 years later.

1718.87338? WTF is it? stuck in my head

i don't remember it at all

but since you mentioned it, i googled it and it had something to do with deflection.

Skeptic con Urquell - January 22, 2012 reply

it had something to do with deflection.

useful for criticism or expectations I guess?

just used this the other day in a lecture

Evanz - January 22, 2012 reply

+10000

The “Monta iso” could become the new Warriors loosing phrase….like…Oh Crap!…it was another “Monta iso” game.

Only In Fairfax - January 22, 2012 reply

One thing is increasingly clear (regardless of how long this cake bakes): The 30 games that I modestly predicted they would win this season; highly unlikely!

dinohealth - January 21, 2012 reply

The bottom line is that this team sucks

and we need to trade some players for picks. We know NJ was trying to trade for Dwight, maybe we can get them to bite of Lee or something. All I know is that the ceiling of this team is a first round playoff exit and we need to trade a bunch of these players.

The Warriors used to be bad and exciting.

Now we’re just bad and boring.

When will the team stop playing Monta 40+ minutes a game and having him do him? When will we just cut ties and start to change?

We will stop playing him 40+ minutes when he drops dead on the court

well, the good news is Monta isn't playing 40 minutes right now

he hasn’t played 40 minutes in the ast 5 games, so that’s something

hopefully Klay plays more and more

I think that's literally only because of the truncated schedule.

He’s still 2nd in the league in minutes.

yeah, but I'm pretty sure there is a concerted effort to play him less now

I read it somewhere or something

I think the presence of a decent bench is making that possible

I think the return of Curry will allow Ellis to play less minutes

Lol and we still lose

We had a 1:1 assist/turnover ratio against Indiana

I wish we had a real PG would could take care of the ball.

I also wish that the Warriors would play a faster pace and finish on fastbreaks.

If we’re going to be terrible, at least be exciting. We are boring right now. And our defense has gone back to stinking, it turns out that no amount of scheming can hide our lack of one on one defenders (what a surprise).

The chair that Yi Jianlian posted up plays better defense than David Lee

Warriors are 3.5 games out of the 8th seed

I wonder if this will encourage Joe Lacob to continue to try to fight for that playoff berth. Maybe we will even go hard for Dwight Howard.

We'd also have to leapfrog like 5 Western teams. I could see us ending up better than three

Sac, Phoenix and maybe minny or Utah since they’re relatively young. Still that’s 5 teams to leap just for the 8th seed.