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Recap #14: Nets 107 Warriors 100 - Tank runs dry too soon for break even road trip

Nets 107-Warriors 100

Box Score | Game Thread | TSN Recap

Blog Buddies: NetsDaily

Please excuse the interlude. The regularly scheduled recap will resume shortly.

The Internet is a fascinating thing. It's a tool for communication, research and entertainment. Without it, one could not immediately see photographic evidence of the uncanny resemblance between Warriors rookie Charles Jenkins and Barksdale enforcer Wee-Bey Brice.


Weebay_jenkins_medium

Separated at birth?

Bar bets about who the best rookie three-point shooter was (ok, you might have know that one anyhow) or which rookie had the highest punting average in NFL history might forever go unsettled. We might never know the answer to such questions as 'whatever became of Philip Michael Thomas?' It can bring us images both beautiful and repulsive. And while it holds fantastic utility at times, at others, it seems almost completely useless and inane. It can bring out fabulous dialog filled with intelligent debate and insight as well as the predictable base devolution of communication one might expect from such an inclusive tool. All of our lives would be significantly different without it.

Potential legislation has the potential to change aspects of the Internet. How much? In what ways? It is not entirely clear from the bills as written, but I for one would rather be sure than have poorly designed laws forced upon us. As a small part in preventing this, I urge all of you who reside in the USA to investigate SOPA and PIPA and to contact your legislative representatives, making sure that they understand the implications of their legislation.

At the very least, I urge you to learn a bit more about it yourselves. SBNation has summarized their position and opinion of the legislative movements in this statement (a statement I had zero part in crafting or publishing). It is not the only valid opinion but it is certainly worth reading.

OK, off my soap box and on to basketball after the jump.

Star-divide

I did not use our wonderful Internet to check if it was a half price night in New Jersey, but both teams only brought half the game in this the Warriors last visit* to the Prudential Center, providing the Nets with their first home victory of the season. Normally, the game is played at both ends of the court by both teams. But when both teams nail more than half their shots it screams out in bold print:

No defense

Unable to contest enough shots, the Warriors surrendered 50% shooting to a club that was hovering at 41% from the floor for the season. While Monta's 6 steals were impressive, they were a mark of some gambling to catch up on legs that were not moving as fast as they normally do. As such, his 30 points paired with 2 and 9 from Jenkins and Nate Robinson were outdone by the combined output of the Nets' backcourt. Talented and productive rookie MarShon Brooks' managed 22 points on 8-15 shooting to go along with 6 assists, while Deron Williams poured in 24 with 10 dishes on the side, well ahead of the subpar substandard shooting that had marked most of his season so far. Indeed four of the Nets starters finished with double digit point totals.

The Warriors themselves did not face stellar defense. New Jersey entered with the league's worst defensive FG%. Fitz may have muttered something about a 'well played' game when shot after shot fell for both teams, but reality was that neither team did enough to stop the other, relying instead on trying to out-shoot the other. The Warriors actually managed an edge in shooting (51.4% on 72 shots) but that only slightly outpaced the Nets.

And when you cannot beat a team by shooting significantly better from the floor, your options for winning come down to either winning it at the line or taking more shots. In both departments, the Warriors fell short. The 18-27 from the charity stripe did not help. But the real culprit was on the glass where the Warriors...

Did not rebound effectively!

While this season has, for the most part, seen much better performances on the glass than we were used to for the previous few seasons, tonight it all fell apart. And while I know I've been known to worship at the church of the (perhaps overvalued) rebound, this much is true: it is much tougher to win when you lose the battle of the boards by 20. This meant more shots and, importantly, more second chance shots for the Nets and fewer second chance opportunities for the Warriors.

Tired legs? Perhaps. This could explain an underwhelming defensive outing and a poorer than expected rebounding outcome. It is entirely possible that the Warriors were just out of gas, It came at the end of a road trip playing their second game in as many nights. Perhaps a solid signal of the difference between last year's outings and this year's squad under Mark Jackson, at least the team did not appear to allow fatigue to radically diminish their effort. Nonetheless, tired legs are tired legs and they just don't jump as high for rebounds or close on shooters as fast. There were some signs early that there may have been. Monta took a first quarter open-court steal and converted it into a layup rather than go up for the dunk. And to their credit, the Warriors did manage to score in the paint early on rather than settling for long jumper after long jumper as many a tired player will do.

And despite all this, for more than three quarters, it still looked like victory was likely. It was only the last sputtering minutes where the Nets pulled ahead and Golden State stalled when trying to grab back the game. As such, in the end it meant splitting on a road trip where 3 and 1 was a real possibility.

(Footnote: *The meeting will be the final barring a miraculously improbable meeting of both franchises in an NBA finals confrontation. And while I am certain that some Nets fans will speak highly of some of the talent on their team, they, like us, have to be realists and realize that odds this happening are not good.)

Poll
How do you feel about the 2 and 2 record on the road trip?
I'm disappointed. We were soooooooo close to 3 and 1.
85 votes
It's acceptable when one considers that we only won 10 on the road all last year.
48 votes
I'm disappointed. The pizza arrived almost an hour late and when it arrived it was already cold.
17 votes
Wait, what were we talking about?
24 votes

174 votes | Poll has closed

3 recs  |  87 comments

Comments

- Udoh MUST step his game up, defense and blocks are nice but he’s no different then Turiaf right now
- Biedrins – Playing good and should play more
- Monta – So much on his plate, hard not to applaud him
- DW – FINALLY starting to play like last year
- Nate – I like your energy, but you are dumb. So dumb

This team either needs to take off when Steph gets back or do the best available trade

for a player that starts at turiafs level in his soph season

means that he has room to grow.

and nate takes some of the worst thought out threes ive seen out of anyone on this squad

But Udoh is almost 25

25! We won’t see him completely transform into a great rebounder and scorer like a Bosh, KG, or MONROE

....thats still quite young

just because he was old for the draft doesnt make him some inteachable old man

Also would like to add

Klay Thompson is looking better and better every game.

His career true shooting % is up to .536 — one point better than Monta’s!

True

He’s on his way to becoming Morrow 2.0

He’s on his way to becoming Morrow 2.0

what’s impressed me about Klank is not his shooting but his all around game. He has a tendency to do the right thing more than the wrong thing which is usually missing in a rookie. I don’t think he’s athletic or explosive enough to be a franchise player but he seems like he’s gonna be a nice journeyman player, maybe a hedo turkeyglue type? .

Hedo was a all star type guy

That is wishful thinking for him to be a number 2 on a finals team. Maybe he can be a starting SG as a specialized shooter on a contender

Hedo was a all star type guy

so KBrown and Tyler for Hedo?

“Was” is an operative word here.

Hedo took a while to become that

Take a look at his first few years-
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turkohe01.html

True

But I don’t see Klay bursting out into a awesome player, I don’t think he has that edge to him all those guys have . He’s too calm

I would say a similar thing about Hedo’s demeanor, really. I also don’t see Klay bursting out, but it’s mostly an age/lack of serious athleticism thing.

If I remember correctly Hedo in 2008 was the guy they went to in the clutch

His demeanor is similar to Klay’s , but he steps up to the challenge and will attack anyone . At least he used to

Maybe Klay will be like that one day, but don’t count on it IMO

Agree, but then again, I would have said the same about Hedo in 2002, ya know?

Ya I know

But if Klay goes that route it could be a long time before he gets that good

- Nate – I like your energy, but you are dumb. So dumb

I lol’ed.

me too.. it seemed like a fair enough point about each guy and then... blam....

In nates defense, i do see him make alot of smart plays.. in particular the fast breaks he knows how to draw the defender to himself and make the easy pass for a layup to someone else

He's not a bad player

Just not a good one, pretty average as a 20+ minute guy

that's why it is a backup PG.
It?

But still, he ,may not even be that. He’s a SG that has no other choice on this team but to be a PG

so who is a better backup PG in the team?

or anyone that Warriors can pickup at this point?

Hopefully

when Curry gets healthy. Jenkins and Nate can play together as a backup. Jenkins can play the 1 and Nate the 2. But on defensive side, Jenkins can guard the 2 and Nate the 1. Or you can replace Klay with Jenkins either which is gonna work.

Loved that pic comparison of Jenkins with the Barkesdale enforcer actor...

Would be great if Jenkins developes into the lovable stone cold killer on the court….

Ha I’m actually more inclined to agree with dubzfan – though you make a good point, so I wouldn’t call him so dumb as much as say he really, really, really likes to shoot the basketball. Like….a lot. To the point where it’s dumb? Yeah, probably.

I don’t know … If Nate’s any “dumber” than Monta Ellis, it hasn’t really shown up their career production to date. In case anyone missed my last diary…

Player A career per 36: 19.5 points on .535 ts / 3.7 reb / 4.4 ast / 2.8 tov / 1.7 stl

Player B career per 36: 18.5 points on .536 ts / 3.3 reb / 5.0 ast / 2.3 tov / 1.4 stl

Player C career per 36: 17.6 points on .534 ts / 4.0 reb / 4.1 ast / 2.2 tov / 1.4 stl

One of these dudes is Monta, one is Nate Robinson, and one is Lou Williams. I can’t remember now which is which. If anything, I’d say player A is the “dumbest” ’cos he has the worst assist-to-turnover ratio, but they all look like basically the same guy to me.

In fairness: you could say Monta is smarter than the other two in that he’s been able to persuade a few head coaches that he should be a centerpiece of his team.

Well, I dunno. There are some key differences – mostly, that Nate, being 4’10, has only one position he can play, and he clearly doesn’t fulfill that role well. Second, the role – agree that Monta in his current role doesn’t play smart, winning basketball. On the other hand, seems to me Nate chooses to play in his role.

Monta makes other plays though

He can attract a defense and he can distribute better then Nate or Louis , also Monta has always had to do way more on his teams then those 2 guys

Agree on Nate, not so much on Lou. Don’t underestimate what Lou can do. Heck, he has a gun pointed at him in my neighborhood of Philly, and look at the results! Go Lou!

Look at the numbers again: A is Monta, B is Louis, C is Nate. Monta distributes slightly better than Nate and slightly worse than Louis.

Yeah, he has had to do more in the sense that he’s had to play more minutes. Per minute, he hasn’t really done more than the other two.

Here's a difference

Monta averages close to 40mins a game, while Williams and Robinson only play 20-25. So,

1) From a team perspective, you get more per game from Monta

2) Do you think Nate or Lou would be as productive with almost twice the minutes?

I doubt it.

1) From a team perspective, you get more per game from Monta

more inefficient stats? are we sure that’s a good thing?

Almost twice as many minutes? Maybe not. However, if Lou played starter minutes, yes, I think he would be as productive. It may be surprising to you, but rate stats actually do tend to hold up with increases in minutes (and actually, on average, slightly increase).

It’s not exactly twice the minutes.

Career avg / career-high minutes per game
35.6 / 41.4 Ellis
23.1 / 29.9 Robinson
21.3 / 29.9 Wiliams

Do I think Nate or Lou would produce at the same rate given 10-12 extra minutes a game? Absolutely. See “Millsap doctrine.” Studies show that overall, players actually tend to improve their rate numbers slightly given regular playing time. And lo and behold, when Nate and Lou have played bigger minutes (±30 per game) their numbers haven’t really suffered.

what are we comparing a starter and a backup PG?

Nate is a great backup PG, period.

Well, that’s kind of my point. In an ideal world, Monta should be a “great backup combo guard, period.” Over his career, he has been the same type of player and same caliber of player as Nate Robinson and Louis Williams. There are few nuances there, of course (Lou’s marginally the best passer/ballhandler, Nate’s marginally the best rebounder, Monta’s marginally the best scorer, e.g.) But none of them has produced at a level where anyone should say “this guy is starter material and the other two are not.”

Stop underestimating Lou. :\

Millsap’s numbers improved when he went to 30mins a game; it does not follow that the curve would continue beyond that. I don’t doubt that extra minutes help a player to get in sync better. But at some point, fatigue becomes a factor and performance will be affected for most. Will players that have averaged 25mins (with no game > 30mins) over their entire careers show no dropoff at 39mins (Ellis’s avg last 3 yrs). Maybe, but I doubt it.

Millsap actually got up to 34.3 minutes a game, and produced roughly the same rate numbers he did at 30.1 mpg (worse rebounding rate, better assist rate, better scoring volume at exactly the same efficiency). So in the case of Millsap at least, it does follow that the curve goes past 30. Is there a pronounced “fatigue effect” in the 34-41 minute range? It’s possible, but I don’t know why you’d just assume that it exists, or at least that it exists to the extent where you can say definitively that Monta is better than Louis. Glancing quickly at the production of guys who have played in the 35-40 minute range (LeBron, Wade, Durant, Dirk, Paul, e.g.), there really doesn’t appear to be any kind of pronounced trend in rate production as they increase from 35 to 40 mpg.

I’d love to see a thorough study of what happens to players’ production in that 35-40-minute range. But in the absence of that kind of study, I don’t know why you’d assume that the well-supported Millsap doctrine would suddenly become inapplicable. If there is a real “fatigue effect” from 35-40 minutes, I’d expect it to be pretty minimal.

Dangit, I wish I were the coach of Philly so I could play Lou Williams 38 minutes a night and settle this once and for all!

Glancing quickly at the production of guys who have played in the 35-40 minute range (LeBron, Wade, Durant, Dirk, Paul, e.g.), there really doesn’t appear to be any kind of pronounced trend in rate production as they increase

hard to draw concrete conclusions as the minutes depend on how good the player is combined with how good the rest of the team is. Ideally playing your best player less than 40 min is better from a wear and tear standpoint but some teams don’t have that luxury. Some players are just better than others no matter what their minutes and numbers reflect, the important thing is team composition which leads to wins. If kobe’s numbers are low but he sat 1/3 of the game and the lakers won it doesn’t reflect on kobe, it just means he wasn’t needed as much that night.

Honestly, I don’t think anyone should be playing 39+ mpg in the regular season.

DW...

Every time he is on the floor, the other team made so many 3s

I like Marc Jackson, but

he really needs to give this “we’re a no excuses basketball team” thing a rest. OK, so we’re a no excuses basketball team. So what? We still suck.

he really needs to give this "we’re a no excuses basketball team" thing a rest

dunno -it’s annoying must admit -but sometimes it’s good to say same thing over and over again
as they say -if you call a man 99 times a pig at 100 time he will start to grunt

if this is what it takes to make this team better i m OK with that

as they say -if you call a man 99 times a pig at 100 time he will start to grunt

This made me lol, too.

Marc Jackson is still on the team? Since when?

Repititious phrases is part of life for a broadcaster/preacher...
Marc Jackson

the funny half of the jackson twins?

Oh my god..

I knew he looked like somebody famous!!

Klay Thompson

is the real deal. A pure basketball player.

He's been playing real well for us

I’ll always want more out of him, but his production has been pretty solid the last few games. I like seeing him stroke open 3s like he has, but sometimes he tries to take guys off the dribble and I don’t really see that as part of his game yet. Still much to learn young padawan, but a pretty great first leg of his rookie journey thus far.

His left hand seems pretty decent, which is a very good sign. He doesn’t have the first step really, but like Stephen Jackson, he understands how important the triple threat is in relation to scoring the ball, and how it opens up opportunities to get past your man.

Maybe he could teach Monta a thing or two about the importance of triple threat and what being able to actually dribble with your left hand enables you to do…

Good god, is it just me or has his dribbling regressed

I swear, every other possession he loses it and has to recover

Seriously....

…I’ve noticed this, too. I always knew Monta’s handles were suspect, but this season they’ve been downright bizarre.

he's looking to pass more, but he's not used to dribbling with his head up
This

before it was head down and get to the rim somehow. Now he is trying to make plays for others.

Until he gets frustrated in the 3rd quarter and puts his head down again.

Beyond the poor handles, there are just way too many times Monta catches in in a triple threat position, and then just starts dribbling for no reason. I’ve even seen him start dribbling just to take a step backwards (and out of shooting range)!

Seriously...

That’s a huge hole in his game.

Having a great shot will really open up his game if he continues to work on it.

Look how far JJ Redick has come along. He can now score on the drive and is a competent ball handler. When you have a 3pt shot that defenders must respect, it opens up your driving game so much.

He will be the real deal if his defense improves step by step as well...

…have heard several comments about him showing up at the gym early and leaving late…if true then we may have something here,,,

Don't get ahead of yourself

He’s still not much more then a shooter

Klay's D > DW's D

Klay has the speed that DW does not have. Klay stay on the ground when D up, DW running back and forth, jumps like crazy. And Klay can steal, and a better passer than DW.

Klay stay on the ground
D up, running back and forth
Jumps like crazy.

ILWG, you’re a haiku poet and you don’t even know it!

isnt the last line supposed to have 5 syllables?

D’oh, oh yeah. Let’s try again…

Klay has the speed that
DW does not have.
Klay stay on the ground.
try rap it
rap it

jerry west say klay da best
but dat fool a laker tool
no excuses, klank
grown man move, klank
stare down , blank
young money n da bank

we all re tools

of our identity
one way or another
no way around it

i like it

… and Klay is in the house, DW is outta house

lmao

Printed immediately.
hanging on refrigerator.
Smiling .

don't like haiku

because it’s way more about what you read than what’s written

on other hand i prefer Gorky over Dostoyevsky…

Klay

can defend and good thing he started to get going on his shot. But once in a awhile he still make rookie mistake on defensive end. I just hope everyday he get better and be our starting Small Forward. So Dorell Wrong can stop being Wrong and being Wright again. His free throw just cost us this game.

But Klay still not a clutch player.

He’s got a lot of time to learn. He hasn’t even played 20 games yet. I will say this though, he’s got some of the best fundamentals out of all the players on this team.

rec

for the wire reference

Good Article

Vote for Ellis everyday for the All Star game.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1028289-the-most-underrated-player-in-the-nba-monta-ellis

did you really just call a bleacher report article good?
Read it first.

just by reading the title i can tell you that:

1) they use per game stats
2) they disregard efficiency
3) they disregard monta’s overall effect on the offense

am i right?

forgot #4

they disregard defense

Warriors last visit* to the Prudential Center, providing the Nets with their first home victory of the season

Warriors went down to history again. And bring confidence to the opposing opponent.

Jaw, thanks for the sopa heads up

Sopa and pipa will ruin the Internet. Gsom/sb nation could become victims.

On to warriors news, I would love if the dubs are competitive in every game but end up losing. I want my cake and eat it too. If we can stay competitive, show we can hold our own will lead to positivity (within the fanbase, management, etc). But I want the draft pick. The magic game was a good example. Players shouldn’t lose confidence because we gave the magic the business, but our glaring weakness (lack of superstar) was evident.

Mike Brown is a bad coach

He is a good assistant coach if he just focused on defense, but not a head coach. Kobe’s USG is through the roof. It’s ridiculous how Mike Brown just lets Kobe ISO or jack up shots.

We straight garbage.

Sometimes we’re depressing to watch. About half the time, really.

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